a few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
“Being in a good mood that particular day, I told them that if they could prove that god existed, I’d become a Jovie - and I meant every word”.
Really??? You actually meant every word??? If anyone could prove to me that god existed, JWs would the among the last religions on earth I would join.
jesus was a jew who apparently thought he was the messiah, however, after dying, his disciples began to propagate the lie that he would return from heaven during his generation.
but, his generation passed away, and it was clear that it was a false prophecy, then a dishonest christian wrote the second letter of peter so as to condemn those who realised that the prophecy was a fiasco.
interestingly, and sadly, this religion survived,....why????
answer: by governing body of jws no!
answer: governing body of jws
answer: governing body of jws
"This cry for money is to cultivate funds for the new UK branch intended to be built. a good possibility."
Finkelstein - I doubt they would need additional finds for that - I would have thought that the sale of their prime North London property should more than pay for their relocation. Of course it could still be used by them to claim that the need more money.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011736.
i've not bothered to read anything on this for years as i addressed it personally years ago.
but in this official article they appear to be focusing all their argument on the '70 years' part of the debate.
I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but the debate over 606/7
BCE and 587 BCE is not new. In 1904
Russell received the following letter, which was published in the October 1 Watchtower
on page 296 (Reprint page 3436).
“Dear Sir, since you have changed your views respecting Gentile Times let me suggest the possibility of still another error. You count the seventy years Babylonian captivity of the Jews as beginning with the overthrow of Zedekiah, Judah’s last king, but I notice that “Bishop Usher’s Chronology,” given in the margins of our Common Version Bibles and based on “Ptolemy’s Canon,” begins that seventy-year period nineteen years earlier-namely, in the first year of Nebuchadnezzar, when he took captive Daniel and other prominent Jews and laid the Jews’ country under tribute. Now if this, the common reckoning, be correct, it would make the Times of the Gentiles to begin nineteen years later than you estimate, namely, in B. C. 587, instead of B. C. 606; and this in turn would make those times end nineteen years later than you have reckoned - in October, A. D. 1933, instead of October, 1914. What do you say to this? Are you humble enough to acknowledge that I have struck some new light, and that you and all DAWN readers have been “all wrong,” walking in darkness?”
Russell’s reply was;
“We reply that there are too many ifs in the proposition, and that they are all abundantly contradicted by facts and Scripture and are therefore not worthy [of] the slightest consideration. (1) The brother errs in supposing that we have changed our view of “Gentile Times.” Those “times” or years are 2520, with a definite beginning in B. C. 606, and a definite ending, A. D. 1914. We know of no reason for changing a figure: to do so would spoil the harmonies and parallels so conspicuous between the Jewish and Gospel ages.”
So the reason Russell stuck with 606 BCE was because, to do otherwise, would “spoil the harmonies and parallels between the Jewish and Gospel ages”. Harmonies that the Watchtower has long since discarded. So right from the start, 606/7 BCE was chosen because it supported Watchtower doctrine, the facts relating to the year have always been irrelevant.
i have always been a very rational and thoughtful person.
there where always questions i had growing up regarding things i was taught.
of course asking questions while being a jw is a big no no!
If god is love, why does he allow so much suffering? From what I remember their main answer was that it started in Eden when Satan challenged Gods right to rule. However, I refuse to believe that a God of Love would let billions thru history suffer and die just to prove a point!Ask any believer if God is fallible, can make mistakes, or be in the wrong, they will say no. Why not? Because He wouldn't be God otherwise. In other words, it's self-evidently true, an axiom. But if that is the case then He doesn't need to prove anything. All He needed to say was, 'Satan, you're wrong, end off.' The fact that He felt the need to prove himself is in itself an error, for axioms do not need proving, therefore He can make mistakes. The logic of the JW explanation for suffering introduced this paradox, mind you, other explanations are no better.
if this has been posted up before, then i missed it...... they call this organization "the truth" so we might expect it to be accurate .
they themselves they have previously championed honesty :.
live with jehovahs day in mind (2006) p115 par 9.
There are dozens of examples this, and a lot of them have been collected together in this book if you’re interested.
how do you convince a jw that every decision that comes from the governing body is not from god?.
my mom who is a pioneer said that the students are getting their work book a month early, then proceeded to say " jehovah knows what we need".. for you who now know ttat what did it take for you?.
How do you convince a JW that every decision that comes from the Governing Body is not from God?
Get them to acknowledge that Jehovah IS infallible and then quote them from the FDS itself;
Watchtower of March 1, 1979 page 23, “The ‘faithful and discreet slave’ has alerted all of God’s people to the sign of the times indicating the nearness of God’s Kingdom rule. In this regard, however, it must be observed that this ‘faithful and discreet slave’ was never inspired, never perfect.”
or
Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, 1993, page 626, “Jehovah’s Witnesses … recognize the Watchtower magazine and kindred publications to be the ones used by the faithful and discreet slave to dispense spiritual food. They do not claim that this slave class is infallible…”
had an interesting thought this morning.
when a witness is 'in' they think everyone else is following and trying there best all in unity.
i believe the reality is there are a lot of us 'in' who know different.
april video online.
at around 42 minutes, a women find jehovahs witness, but her husband is not too hot on the idea and so she has to study with her children in secret.
however eventually the husband prays to jehovah that if jehovah will help him find a leak in a construction he is working on, he will go to a meeting and presto, the next day jehovah help him find the leak so now he is a witness..
"ugh. near the end we are told the governing body loooves all of us."
Not so... they hate us... they only love those who endure by not visiting sites like this one.
there seem to be many prerequisites for life as we know it.. to name a few: order, function, compatibility, availability, sustainability, intelligence, consciousness, intuition and so on.. focusing on only one, namely order.. what are the chances of order arising spontaneously, by chance, with no creator/designer?.
i have often pondered this and recently came across a mathematical summary of the big picture:.
if every particle in the known physical universe (10^80 particles), participated in one trillion interactions (10^12 interactions) per second, for the entire 30 billion years of the universe's existence (10^18 seconds), then we would by now have covered only 10^110 permutations.. if you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?.
"If you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?"
If we have an infinite universe then not only will a blindfolded person lay them out in order, they will do it an infinite number of times.
